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Post by syahril on Mar 2, 2014 23:02:35 GMT
im thinking to make either synth-magic bullet char or sharpshooter-craftmanship
is that good idea or terribad idea? and what expertise i should focus on 1st because i dont think i can get makanda stone(for magical knowledge) and type 38 gunner and also what stats i should focus on?
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Post by denauli on Mar 4, 2014 4:11:57 GMT
I'll try and address what I can:
A synth/MB hybrid would not be ideal. Successful fusions by synth skills require high INT while MB derive their strength from high SPD. Synth usually hybrids with enhancement because both chains benefit from Intelligence. Pure synthers (a staple on EN server with high success rates) are entirely non-combat characters. And their expertise chains are infamously difficult to raise especially since we lack access to things like Rulers gear and scattering pollen. However, because we can access more exp through Casino and Diaspora (for a total of 36k points) it may not be bad to hybrid with enhance.
I don't know very much about crafting unfortunately, and I'm very inexperienced with gunner builds in general.
For the crafting professions I'm not sure which expertise to focus on. As a synth I started by raising minerology as fast as possible before ever focusing on weapons knowledge and demonology. I'm not sure if this was ideal or not. Makanda stones are fairly common to come by as many people will farm Celu silver and bronze. Usually players keep spares. Type 38 guns are also not difficult to come by. I've seen a few casually running Nakano bronze. They may also be in Nakano silver (I'm sure people spam it for the plug from that dungeon). I'm sure clannies may be able to help you acquire these items. After all, everyone benefits from synthers/crafters.
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Estra
Licensed DB
Posts: 51
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Post by Estra on Mar 4, 2014 4:36:22 GMT
In general, given expertise limitations, I'd probably just urge you to focus on a damage dealing expertise or a production expertise. And, given how expensive and time-consuming production expertise can be to raise (especially to the point of creating higher demand items), you probably want to go with damage dealing as you're just starting out.
While it does seem attractive to be able to support yourself with what you can create on your own, as a focused damage dealer you can build up an income more quickly through looting and general runs. This income will allow you to fund pursuits like an alternate character focusing on a production expertise.
As far as makanda stones and a type 38 gun, I'd urge you to rely on your clan if you have one. Some folks do tend to hang onto those things as long as inventory space permits.
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Post by syahril on Mar 5, 2014 0:05:24 GMT
In general, given expertise limitations, I'd probably just urge you to focus on a damage dealing expertise or a production expertise. And, given how expensive and time-consuming production expertise can be to raise (especially to the point of creating higher demand items), you probably want to go with damage dealing as you're just starting out. While it does seem attractive to be able to support yourself with what you can create on your own, as a focused damage dealer you can build up an income more quickly through looting and general runs. This income will allow you to fund pursuits like an alternate character focusing on a production expertise. As far as makanda stones and a type 38 gun, I'd urge you to rely on your clan if you have one. Some folks do tend to hang onto those things as long as inventory space permits. er sorry for stupid question how do you level mineralogy on jp server?
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Post by denauli on Mar 6, 2014 6:24:35 GMT
According to the JP wiki, minerology is raised the same way it was done on EN server - by using tarot fusion from the synthesis chain expertise.
As for your question about hybrid synth and retaliation: what would be the point? synthesis is a production chain which requires a high amount of expertise growth on its own to be at all efficient. Retaliation on the other hand, is a chain expertise which is made to complement melee builds, though Lord of Armor ability is very valuable for enhancers.
The only class synth can hybrid effectively with is enhancement. And even then, you will not be able to do both effectively. The most you will get is c2-5 enhance which is enough for large aoe heal, attack and defense buff, as well as super armor. Synthesis success and enhance buffs both require a high amount of Intelligence. However, you will most likely not have access to many status cures and mirrors which are valuable for higher level runs. And to raise synth to its fullest (around c6) you will most likely have to remove expertise for enhance (since the expansions for expertise require A LOT of resources and high level requirements). It may very well be more trouble than it's worth.
Synthesis is a very difficult class, and many of us lack equipment to make the process easier. Not to mention things like lethe waters/bottles and hourglasses to adjust characters passed level 30. For now, I would suggest setting aside ambitions for crafter classes and focus on a damage dealing role. Once you are a bit funded it may be easier to start a pure synth who can focus on providing services.
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Post by rutee on Mar 6, 2014 20:32:59 GMT
I have to agree with denauli. I don't understand why you would hybrid Synthesis with Retaliation at all. Retaliation, on its own, doesn't really do much - it needs to be paired with either enhancement or a combat expertise (usually some type of melee, but I've seen people mix it with gunner expertises as well, though for experimental/gear-intensive builds) to really give any benefit. It will have zero effect on Synthesis, so there's no point to mixing the two.
I get the feeling that you're really set on making a synth hybrid, but I have to back up what everyone else is saying: for your first character, that's not really a great idea. Synthesis is very grind-heavy to level, and leveling it requires lots of time and a decent amount of macca for the grinding materials. It's really possible that you'll either burn out from boredom and/or go broke from buying tarots, and unless you're planning on leeching all runs, you won't have much way to make macca during those early periods since you won't have combat skills. Synths in particular need to stockpile their gems, so you won't be able to make as much money as combat chars or demon tamers who can just sell all of their gem drops. Synth gear (luck/int boosting) is also somewhat rarer to come by, so you might be best served by making a combat or demon character first and slowly building up macca and gems and buying gear for your future synth as you learn the game and build up your funds.
You can have multiple accounts, so don't feel like you're limited to just one character to do everything you're curious about.
If you're absolutely DEAD SET on a synth hybrid, I'd go with synth/enhance, as it's truly the only synth hybrid that makes any sense. Grab 2.5 enhancement BEFORE you start on synthesis and build a good demon (even your beginner demon that snakeman hands out can be made to be useful when paired with enhancement at low levels if you get the right skills with the free SP) and use that to clear dungeons to get macca, a gem stockpile, and levels. After you get some decent macca stores, if you're still set on synth, then you can start grinding it without having to worry about constantly running out of the macca necessary to buy tarots/repair the items you're taroting (you will have an absolutely abysmal success rate for synth at first, so you'll be failing a lot, and each fail will kill 5 dura on whatever item you're practicing on). Plus, you'll have a way to take a break and do runs when you need to unwind from the synth grinding.
You expressed interest in MB, which is a pretty good beginner class as it keeps you mostly out of harm's way and will let you have access to a lot of major elements and ailments without needing to invest in tons of gear. MB was my first character and, like you, I also tried to pair it with synthesis at first xD Take it from me, that didn't work - my MB damage was bad AND my synth success rate was bad because my expertises and stats were split between two sets of stats and skills that didn't help each other at all (MB needs magic and speed, Synth needs intelligence and luck). If you want to try out MB, I suggest mixing it with things like Sharpshooter, Rapid, Enhancement, Curse of the Wretched, or even Pursuit or the Conditions of Ranged Combat expertise.
Sharpshooter/Craftsmanship is kind of like Synth/Retaliation, in that the combination servers no purpose. Sharpshooter boosts gunner damage, on its own there's no point. Mixing it with a crafting expertise will accomplish nothing but wasting expertise points.
Also, in regards to the crafting classes, be aware that once you hit max expertise/gear on those, if you don't have another character that you're trying to gear up or support (or enhancement/demon to work on as in a synth/enhance mix), you might find yourself quite bored as you won't be capable of doing runs unless you find people willing to carry you. You can help others and make macca by selling your creations, but people won't always need synth every moment of the day, and sitting around in Babel waiting for people who do or endlessly farming plasmas for mats to create weapons can get very old very fast. If you're the type of person who thinks that sounds super fun, disregard this of course... I just don't want to see someone get bored and burned out because they chose a class that essentially removes them from 90% of the game's content as their first introduction into SMTIO.
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Post by syahril on Mar 7, 2014 0:06:30 GMT
hmm i guess i go for retaliation then... and maybe another char for full crafter thanks for the tips all and one last question-what stats i need to focus on retaliation? i know luck is a must but others?
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Post by rutee on Mar 7, 2014 1:24:06 GMT
Retaliation alone doesn't do much, what are you planning to pair it with? One of the melee expertises (attack, spin, rush) or the enhancement chain?
Without knowing that, we can't tell you what stat to raise.
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Post by syahril on Mar 7, 2014 2:10:25 GMT
well my spin already c2 though
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Post by denauli on Mar 7, 2014 4:56:56 GMT
As long as you remain under level 30 you can still adjust your build with items from the magic shop. I'll try and explain a general route you can take with retaliation and spin. I'm sorry for the wall of text, but I hope it's a starting point for you to begin exploring how you want to build a character.
Melee and retaliation go hand in hand perfectly. And retaliation can be raised easily early on because it is not as dependent on items. Mages eat candy and gum like crazy, gunners will always need a supply of (hopefully) inexpensive bullets. Melee can start pounding stuff with their fists and rely on a demon for heals. Early on I used my leader pixie to heal while I spammed rush on Hua Po to raise weapons knowledge. Hardly ever had to look away from the screen and only had to go refresh Baccas' Exp incense boost.
Regal Spin Melee is a perfectly viable option for a damage dealer. Class 3 Retaliation skill Lord of Beasts increases your spin damage by 40% when wielding a spear. It also increases spin cool-down time by 50%. This can be mediated through equipment such as Cait Sith SS which, when placed on the feet, lowers spin cool-down time by 20%. So the penalty may be less severe.
The minimum requirement to unlock c3 retaliation would be:
Attack c2-0
Weapons Knowledge c5-5
Survival Technique: c1-0
Total: 8,500 expertise points
This can be accomplished very early in the game, albeit with a lot of effort and diligent grinding.
Of course, your primary mode of attack will be spin, so that has to factor in as well. Spin reaches its maximum at c7. Also, maxing weapons knowledge and survival technique will reduce wear and tear on your weapons and armor.
A finished build could look like
Attack c2-0
Weapons Knowledge c9-0
Survival Tech: c5-0
Spin: c7-0
Total: 22,000 exp points
Chain: c6 retaliation
With this build you have all the versatility of retaliation. c4 Lord of Armor nulls knockback and incapacitation. Your base damage will be reduced by 100% and all damage you receive will be reduced by 50%. This is good for tanking. You could spin and draw aggro from mobs and gather them together for large, strong aoe attacks (megi-boom). c6 skill Lord of Victory increases close-range damage by 15% with +30 critical at the expense of an extra 30% damage taken when attacked. With an enhancer present to help heal and buff you could be quite strong.
Melee builds have more options on JP server.
The Rampage chain has some bonuses that may be useful. One at c3 reduces spin cool-down by 10% which can go well with Lord of Beasts. But it may be worthwhile to research more into that. At this point I feel like writing a guide lol.
Retaliation can also be good for enhancers and demolition dash mages. It all comes down to how you want to play the game. Hope I helped at all.
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Post by syahril on Mar 9, 2014 1:05:17 GMT
ok my expertise for now... still learning the ropes though
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