Estra
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Post by Estra on Apr 27, 2014 14:50:35 GMT
That is a possibility as all of them have spent CP at some point. I'm not sure if the sources overlap (since Sesshou and Fizz at least handled their purchases differently, I believe), which would make it harder to pinpoint. But I believe that would explain the flat out no contact ban. Cave likely wouldn't be as predisposed to warning shots with money at stake.
I did spend a lot of time yesterday looking through blacklists to see if there were any issues with the clan brought up and have not found anything (though another clan had a few members mentioned).
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Post by Azu on Apr 27, 2014 18:05:34 GMT
may or may not be relevant, but on pso2, sharing of webmoney codes between accounts will get you banned eg: you buy a 5k card and use 2k on one acct and 3k on another, thats a no go
all my charas on jp server have full alphanumeric names, and i havnt had any problems at all, and i do buy cp as well, but only through WM codes
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2014 20:32:09 GMT
That is a possibility as all of them have spent CP at some point. I'm not sure if the sources overlap (since Sesshou and Fizz at least handled their purchases differently, I believe), which would make it harder to pinpoint. But I believe that would explain the flat out no contact ban. Cave likely wouldn't be as predisposed to warning shots with money at stake. I did spend a lot of time yesterday looking through blacklists to see if there were any issues with the clan brought up and have not found anything (though another clan had a few members mentioned). This is what I was thinking--that money is one of the only things would prompt them to a no-warning ban. But.......we still don't have an answer.
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Post by Foxnull on Apr 27, 2014 21:09:30 GMT
That is a possibility as all of them have spent CP at some point. I'm not sure if the sources overlap (since Sesshou and Fizz at least handled their purchases differently, I believe), which would make it harder to pinpoint. But I believe that would explain the flat out no contact ban. Cave likely wouldn't be as predisposed to warning shots with money at stake. I did spend a lot of time yesterday looking through blacklists to see if there were any issues with the clan brought up and have not found anything (though another clan had a few members mentioned). That seems possible. Is there any reason someone could get banned for using CP? Is it because its a foreign purchase or a third party transaction instead of JP credit card? I was considering it at one point myself, but the prices were too steep.
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Post by rutee on Apr 28, 2014 1:29:13 GMT
That is a possibility as all of them have spent CP at some point. I'm not sure if the sources overlap (since Sesshou and Fizz at least handled their purchases differently, I believe), which would make it harder to pinpoint. But I believe that would explain the flat out no contact ban. Cave likely wouldn't be as predisposed to warning shots with money at stake. I did spend a lot of time yesterday looking through blacklists to see if there were any issues with the clan brought up and have not found anything (though another clan had a few members mentioned). Yes, ITA that all the panic-inciting about clans/full-width alphanumberic/being non-Japanese is likely barking up the wrong tree entirely and really not helpful. If CAVE wanted to ban foreigners, they would just introduce measures to block all foreign IPs, not use silly excuses like full-width alphanumeric names. While it's possible that some of the more xenophobic Japanese players could be reporting foreign players over nothing, I also think this probably isn't the case and it's a bit pointlessly panic-inducing, IMO, to try and claim that we're being targeted like that with little to no evidence. The clan thing, in particular - there are only a couple English clans, and WI tends to be the biggest and most active. If it was targeting us, we'd have more than just three people out of a hundred banned, and people from other clans wouldn't be having the same troubles. Similarly, if there was some grand Japanese conspiracy against foreign players, more than 4-5 (I'm including Chuu and Xenepic here) people would have been banned in all the time since EN closed. Of course, it could also be foreign players reporting each other. The only people on my blacklist in game are sadly other people from EN server, because apparently some people just can't deal with playing games without begging/trolling/being general asshats even when the possibility of consequence is far higher here than it was on EN. Given that clearly some of these people have no issue with doing their best to alienate and annoy other English players despite our much smaller playerbase here, abuse of the blacklist function wouldn't surprise me either. However... I do think that's not likely the issue here, because given that all three of them were CP spenders, I think CAVE might verify the reports before auto-banning an income source. Money is money, regardless of where it comes from, and they are a business. They're also probably fully aware that some people will be using the report system to troll. However, the fact that all three are CP spenders does make me curious about possible issues with the CP charging. It might be worth comparing your prepaid card sources, and the last specific dates you three bought/spent CP? MissOrder mentioned it earlier, and though it got somewhat passed over in the dramabaiting, I think it's a better theory. Some things that I'm pretty sure it isn't (CP related) that I've heard people throw out as theories: -Charging multiple times per day. I'm sure that many people do this, I do so that I don't get stuck with CP tempting me to waste it if I win big right away in a FC. Plus, part of the FC aspect pretty much banks on people getting caught up in the gamble and recharging when they have bad luck at first. This would make no sense unless it was something along the lines of EXTREME charging, like going into amounts that could point to fraudulent activity and get a flag. -Being foreign and spending CP. This isn't listed as a bannable offense anywhere, and to be frank I'm not sure why they'd even allow foreign players if they didn't have any hopes of making money from them. CAVE isn't making this game just to be nice, you know? -Winning FC as a foreign player. Once again, this makes no sense. While it's possible that other jealous players could make up reports out of anger that someone won a FC and they didn't, I've seen people suggest that just WINNING was banworthy. I'll be honest and say that I've been light-years luckier with CAVE's FCs than I ever was at Atlus/Aeria, so I would have been long banned if this was an issue. Like I said earlier, if it's the instant, no-contact perm ban, that to me hints at something serious like a security issue (compromised account somehow or CP related fraud/issues). I know that CAVE was dealing with phishing emails circulating somewhat recently, is there any chance that you three could have accidentally logged into a false CAVE site and had your info stolen? Like, have you logged in via a link in an email? And while I obviously don't want names, I'd be interested to know what sort of reasons people have for the blacklists you mentioned, Estra. Is it just stuff that has already been warned about, like shouting or afkspinning, or other things that people should be aware of as 'not to do' kind of thing?
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Estra
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Post by Estra on Apr 28, 2014 4:12:31 GMT
I think your post makes a lot of sense and lays out issues pretty well. Fizz is working with some friends of ours to appeal to Cave to get more information, so hopefully we'll have more concrete information then.
Regarding blacklists, I did spend some more time on a few others and was able to pull up more conversations on foreign clans. Basically, there are some people who are afraid the North American community might be involved in RMT (which I think is pretty dumb). A lot of complaints about people being undergeared or leeching, so be really careful about that when joining random parties. There were some complaints about overpricing and expertise training in crowded areas (like Babel).
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Post by Foxnull on Apr 28, 2014 6:03:16 GMT
Yeah i think rutee's post hit the nail on the head. Dont got much else on the topic.
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fuki
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Post by fuki on Apr 28, 2014 9:31:34 GMT
I will admit the people on my blacklist are people who have been, as Rutee best words as "asshats" to me, are all EN players too.
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りゅざき
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Post by りゅざき on Apr 28, 2014 16:20:07 GMT
Not sure if this is helpful or not, but any time I've bought CP I've always done it through people living in Japan who go out and buy Webmoney cards themselves and then sell me the code and I've had no issues at all. If the bans have something to do with CP maybe it could be the sites the victims were using. In any case, I hope this can help at least a little and I hope the issue gets resolved soon ^^
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Post by sesshou on Apr 28, 2014 18:09:18 GMT
Unfortunately, I buy CP through a webmoney wallet/account instead of webmoney cards directly. This webmoney account is still active and has yet to show any signs of problems. Due to this, I would be very surprised if I was banned due to bad cards.
I do agree it is CP related... I had bought CP that morning so it might fit. Maybe I had hit some auto-flag because of the CP spend and the total ban came because I am a foreigner?
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fuki
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Dear Internet, please let me play SMT. I love you lots really. x.x
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Post by fuki on Apr 28, 2014 19:28:46 GMT
Unless Cave gives you answers, I think the reason is difficult to confirm. Hopefully it will get resolved and you can play again.
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りゅざき
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Post by りゅざき on Apr 29, 2014 16:12:34 GMT
I remember having a conversation with a guy in Japan about why games and other things of the sort don't allow foreign credit cards and it basically led to there being a lot of fraud, or at the very least a fear of it. If being a foreigner has anything to do with the bans I would think that it's probably because, like you said Sesshou, you hit some sort of flag or whatnot due to the way you charge your CP or perhaps even the amount charged. The only reason I say this is that I want to do my best to kill the rumors about CAVE being racist that I've noticed floating around. As a business, I imagine they have various things implemented to target and fight fraud, and perhaps one of those was accidentally tripped and resulting in the mess. I once again hope that it gets resolved and that maybe even CAVE will be able to respond and explain it/clear things up.
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tsie
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Post by tsie on May 2, 2014 11:31:30 GMT
So I just tried to log in to my account and I'm getting a wrong id/pw error. I still have access to secure.cave-online.jp. I tried to reset my password, but it says that my secret question and answer are "different" (I guess that's the result of a bad google translation). I have a bunch of alt accounts and they are still accessible. So I'm not sure what the issue is. The secret question and answer that I entered can't be incorrect since Cave e-mails you your question+answer to you after account registration, which is what I used. Never used auto-clickers and I only bought cp via CN-USA. I also did not share webmoney codes with my accounts. I did accidentally speak english in chat by hitting shift+enter instead of enter near the dwarf in babel. That makes it so what I'm trying to type in clan chat ends up in normal chat. I can't contact Cave since I don't understand jp.
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luzt
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Post by luzt on May 2, 2014 12:35:49 GMT
Same for me, used CN-USA too (26th last recharge) did recharge alot during April. So I guess that's a dangerous combo. I doubt CN-USA has anything to with it though, just the suspicious high amount of cp recharged.
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tsie
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Post by tsie on May 2, 2014 13:09:12 GMT
I did recharge a lot too during april. I'm assuming since its not an IP ban that it was an auto-ban due to recharge volume as a precaution. My webmoney account still works so the codes given by CN-USA were good. I'm hoping a quick e-mail to customer service should fix it. Can anyone who is fluent in jp give us a hand?
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